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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
590
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:04:17 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Vidork Drako wrote:Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer : Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills? Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough. No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change. Vidork Drako wrote: Another question : Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?
Nope, just a weapons timer.
THAT is a total load of crap. Youre taking a passive bonus set of skills (a rather investment intensive set at that) and turning it into a set of skills that require active module usage to perform any function whatsoever. I would go out on a limb and say a MASSIVE percentage of the population has these skills trained at the moment and benefit from them and after these changes the vast majority of them will never see usage or benefit from these skills ever again. Could you try just a little but harder to farm your players for $ from skill extractors because this move isn't obvious enough.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
591
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:12:22 -
[2] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Alhira Katserna wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Vidork Drako wrote:Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer : Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills? Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough. No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change. Vidork Drako wrote: Another question : Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?
Nope, just a weapons timer. Tbh not refunding these skills is a kinda **** move. A lot of people only trained Leadership V some even Wing Command V only to pass on boosts under the current system. The majority of them won´t train booster skills once they´re changed and thus you leave them with an useless skill. It's only useless if they NEVER in all their time in EVE ever try to use Command Bursts, which seems kinda unlikely. I trained my Leadership skills solely for the passive bonuses, and now that they'll be bonusing Command Bursts I'm actually now training this character for Command Destroyers so I can start using them.
My main will never be fitting command boosts. And I'm sure I'm not alone. This new command booster role is going to be a torch taken up by specific ppl similarly to ppl who like to fly logi and ewar. For those of us who just needed the skills to FC fleets they are forever useless.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
592
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:25:19 -
[3] - Quote
I have no problem with the boost changes. But not refunding SP for skills that no longer perform the same function is a mistake. Anyone and everyone who has ever been in a position to FC a fleet or even small gang trains those skills even though they are fairly sp intensive because even without any kind of links or boosts in system you have benefits to gain for your fleet by doing so. After these changes you will have nothing to gain from them unless you are flying a specific fleet role in a very limited set of ships. The explanation of "similar purpose" goes out the window when the requirements to get benefit from the skills becomes so narrow. CCP has no reason not to refund SP for these fundamentally reworked skills other than an intent to squeeze $ out of potentially 1000's of pilots for skill extractors.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
593
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:29:31 -
[4] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Finally, finally! This will be a very good change for the health of the game. Although I think some details need to be tweaked.
- The boost duration of 60-130s is too long IMO, would like to see it more in the 30-60s range.
- Will neutral boosters receive a suspect flag if interfering with wars and limited engagements in highsec (same as logis)?
The problem w reducing the time to that sort of level would be that it would mean the total elimination of frigates getting any kind of boost in places like novice FW plexes. At least w a 2 minute timer a frig pilot can get his boost then warp into the plex and have a limited amount of time boosted. With a 30 second time the boost would be gone before you even managed to land in the plex. Ofc a t1 boost frig would solve this but that's starting a slide down a particularly slippery slope. Are we gonna start creating new ships from scratch every time a gameplay mechanic changes? It would also mean you can forget about any kind of kite meta because unless your boost ship is attached to your hip and able to keep up with you, your bonuses are gonna drop before you have a chance to get back into boost range.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
593
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:33:47 -
[5] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Finally, finally! This will be a very good change for the health of the game. Although I think some details need to be tweaked.
- The boost duration of 60-130s is too long IMO, would like to see it more in the 30-60s range.
- Will neutral boosters receive a suspect flag if interfering with wars and limited engagements in highsec (same as logis)? The problem w reducing the time to that sort of level would be that it would mean the total elimination of frigates getting any kind of boost in places like novice FW plexes. At least w a 2 minute timer a frig pilot can get his boost then warp into the plex and have a limited amount of time boosted. With a 30 second time the boost would be gone before you even managed to land in the plex. Ofc a t1 boost frig would solve this but that's starting a slide down a particularly slippery slope. Are we gonna start creating new ships from scratch every time a gameplay mechanic changes? Why is no boosts to frigates in novice plexes a bad thing?
Why is boosts on frigates in novice plexes a bad thing? If I can put a boost ship in a small plex and provide boosts to my dessi fleet why can't my booster pilot do something to assist my frig gang? Is he supposed to sit around and wait till we ship up?
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
595
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:36:44 -
[6] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Obil Que wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Finally, finally! This will be a very good change for the health of the game. Although I think some details need to be tweaked.
- The boost duration of 60-130s is too long IMO, would like to see it more in the 30-60s range.
- Will neutral boosters receive a suspect flag if interfering with wars and limited engagements in highsec (same as logis)? The problem w reducing the time to that sort of level would be that it would mean the total elimination of frigates getting any kind of boost in places like novice FW plexes. At least w a 2 minute timer a frig pilot can get his boost then warp into the plex and have a limited amount of time boosted. With a 30 second time the boost would be gone before you even managed to land in the plex. Ofc a t1 boost frig would solve this but that's starting a slide down a particularly slippery slope. Are we gonna start creating new ships from scratch every time a gameplay mechanic changes? Why is no boosts to frigates in novice plexes a bad thing? He's one of these "solo" pilots that always have boosts + at least 10 alts on standby in case things turn out bad.
Never claimed to be a solo pilot. I'm a fleet pilot and have an alt to provide boosts to said fleet. I have no problem w combat dual boxing and bringing him on grid. If you want "honorable 1v1" take your pansy butt to high sec and cry for duels in empty systems.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
596
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:49:37 -
[7] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Alhira Katserna wrote:Annia Aurel wrote:Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills? Those you still want them are free to reallocate them ... Good question. I hope they get refunded as they-Śre useless now for at least 90% of the people who trained them just to support their fleet. They are still useful and are still used for supporting your fleet. So why would there be any refund? Plus all the begging for an SP refund is a moot point as you can just extract and sell the skills.
a. Because previously they provided a bonus for any and every FC running a fleet. Now they aren't gonna do jack unless FC wants to hop in a boost ship and put a target on his forehead in every engagement.
b. Saying we can "extract them" is just accepting the fact that its just a way for CCP to squeeze more money out of ppl by giving them a reason to buy extractors just to get use out of the SP that they already spent monthly fee's on in order to train. It's like selling someone a car then telling them gas isn't gonna be sold for that car anymore and it can only be driven on specific roads unless they buy a new special upgrade. It's essentially bait and switch.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
596
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:52:24 -
[8] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Finally, finally! This will be a very good change for the health of the game. Although I think some details need to be tweaked.
- The boost duration of 60-130s is too long IMO, would like to see it more in the 30-60s range.
- Will neutral boosters receive a suspect flag if interfering with wars and limited engagements in highsec (same as logis)? The problem w reducing the time to that sort of level would be that it would mean the total elimination of frigates getting any kind of boost in places like novice FW plexes. At least w a 2 minute timer a frig pilot can get his boost then warp into the plex and have a limited amount of time boosted. With a 30 second time the boost would be gone before you even managed to land in the plex. Ofc a t1 boost frig would solve this but that's starting a slide down a particularly slippery slope. Are we gonna start creating new ships from scratch every time a gameplay mechanic changes? It would also mean you can forget about any kind of kite meta because unless your boost ship is attached to your hip and able to keep up with you, your bonuses are gonna drop before you have a chance to get back into boost range. Thanks for the reply. Exactly this case I had in mind when proposing this change. It shall be unfeasible to use boosted ships in novice plexes.
So your next request is that only 2 ships be allowed in a novice plex at a time... well that kinda defeats the whole point of FACTION WARFARE so I guess we're just gonna have to create "EVE BATTLEGROUNDS" the place where all risk adverse cry babies can go to get a fair fight. Special combat plexes w 2 ship limits and no boosts or implants allowed....
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
596
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:59:04 -
[9] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Alhira Katserna wrote:Annia Aurel wrote:Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills? Those you still want them are free to reallocate them ... Good question. I hope they get refunded as they-Śre useless now for at least 90% of the people who trained them just to support their fleet. They are still useful and are still used for supporting your fleet. So why would there be any refund? Plus all the begging for an SP refund is a moot point as you can just extract and sell the skills. a. Because previously they provided a bonus for any and every FC running a fleet. Now they aren't gonna do jack unless FC wants to hop in a boost ship and put a target on his forehead in every engagement. b. Saying we can "extract them" is just accepting the fact that its just a way for CCP to squeeze more money out of ppl buy giving them a reason to buy extractors just to get use out of the SP that they already spent monthly fee's on in order to train. It's like selling someone a car then telling them gas isn't gonna be sold for that car anymore and it can only be driven on specific roads unless they buy a new special upgrade. It's essentially bait and switch. No, this is how skill changes have always been handled. If the skill is still useful in any capacity then you don't get a refund. If the skill is removed completely, only then you will get a refund. When the Advanced Ship Construction skills where nerfed to 1% PE per level (so almost useless), no SP refund was given. When mining barge was removed as a pre req for the Orca, no SP refund was given. I don't see why this scenario should be made an exception. Plus back then there was no option of extracting the SP.
Can't speak for every past change but there were certainly changes in the past that resulted in SP refunds. Just because some changes did not result in said refund doesn't mean there's not a case for saying this one should. Particularly now that spending cash money to extract skills is a thing. If you establish that it's ok to change to functionality of a skill after it's already literally been paid for then what's to stop them from doing the same thing over and over again all in the name of "balance" just to get ppl to pay them cash for more extractors. Extractors which can ONLY be brought into the game through real world cash transactions. Are you ready to start getting farmed for $$$? If I pay $ to train a skill (aquire sp) and the function of that skill changes so that it no longer provides me with a benefit then I should be entitled to a reapplication of that skill to something that will benefit me. CCP have literally nothing to lose (that they are entitled to) by letting ppl respec the SP spent on these skills. All they have to lose is money they can potentially extract from the player base through extractor sales and to call that a shady business practice is an understatement.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
599
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Posted - 2016.08.29 20:34:01 -
[10] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:
well A is blatant bullshit, anyone who has the skills can fly the ships and provide the boosts which guess what is exactly the same as it was before, and B is your opinion combined with a terrible analogy. Please explain why I or anyone else should find either of those things in the slightest bit convincing.
And Hamasaki perhaps you should wait for the actual details to come out, like perhaps in a dev blog they've already said will be coming well before the release of these changes, before you fly off the handle and start making a fool of yourself with wild claims.
It's not a question of being able to fly the ships but even if it were just because you had leadership V that doesn't mean you can fly a command ship. But more importantly someone who trained a skill that required no specific ship or module shouldn't be forced to fly a specific ship/module to get use out of a skill they trained without those restrictions. A person doesn't just train basic leadership skills so they can be a link pilot flying a t3 cruiser they train them so they can command small gangs and fleets and get bonuses no matter what ship they are flying. This change says "well, if you want to get anything out of the skills that you've already devoted time training then you will be a boost ship" or "you can pay us to extract your skills and you can put the sp towards something that you'll actually use."
If you can't figure out the analogy that's your intellectual deficiency and not my fault but I'll break it down for you anyway. Player plays monthly fee which allows them to train a skill. (Consumer buys a guy that drives just fine and runs on gas like any other)
After making your purchase CCP says sorry but that skill doesn't do that any more. (Consumer is told they can't buy gas anymore)
CCP says BUT if you fly fleet boost focused ships and used fleet boost modules you'll still get use of your skills (Car dealer says, you can drive your care on these special roads and it'll work just fine)
CCP says you can always buy extractors from us and redistribute your sp (Car dealer say, you can by this special upgrade and drive wherever you want)
Understand now? They sell you a product, then decide after the fact that the product you paid for is no longer going to perform the task that you intended it for when you paid for it. They then try to upsell you more products just so you can get the same benefit from your purchase that you already paid for. More commonly referred to as a scam.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
600
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Posted - 2016.08.29 20:48:53 -
[11] - Quote
Drago Misharie wrote:It's going to take awhile for CCP to recover from the loss of Revenue. Very pro-pvp change but does not take into account that all the targets will be gone.
Not saying that it's a bad change for players but it is an incredibly terrible change for CCP
1. Cancel four accounts 2. reprocess all industrial related ships and modules 3. Reprocess of all leadership and command skill related modules and ships 4. Extract usesless skill points 5. Sell all and buy plexes for remaining accounts
Extractors for all that sp cost $$. As do the plex that you use that isk for to plex your remaining accounts. They may lose money over time due to a reduction in multi-account usage for link alts but they'll get a boost of income for the extractors, they always have and will continue to make even better money off plex than account subs and some ppl like myself will continue to fly multiple accounts they'll just be combat piloting them. Not as easy as sitting afk at a safe obviously but possible.
And cancel 4 accounts? Who's running 4 link alts and why is that a mining thing?
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
600
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:22:06 -
[12] - Quote
Without running any of the numbers; taking into consideration that we'll be losing all of our standard leadership bonuses, even though links will indeed be on grid won't the gap between the power of a boosted fleet and a non boosted one be even worse than before? Those passive bonuses might not have been huge but they at least conveyed some sort of bonus just to being in a fleet together. Without them the boosted fleet is going to be even more powerful in comparison. So ppl complaining that you had to have links to win before are gonna really be butt hurt when that reality sets in aren't they? Just wondering, like I said I haven't ran the numbers on the bonuses provided by the new boosts but just assuming they are comparable to what we have now it looks like boosts will be even more mandatory than before.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
601
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:26:16 -
[13] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:Hmmmmmm......... interesting....... thanx for sharing the devblog.
My issues i had with the old system seem to not be fixed. It just looks pretty and i can see the booster now. The aggression timer is nice.
However: It can still be done by a dual-box alt and requires very little attention. ONCE PER MINUTE WTF?`you could have done so much better. What is the downside in boosting?! I dont see any. Thats so bad in many boooks. .... rant continues ..... *sigh* ok ... what i try to say: Please make battles more spikey in general! How does this go with commandBURSTS? 1) Apply a strong short positive buff (10seconds. +60% speed) 2) Apply a long negative buff (60seconds. +10% signature) 3) Cycle time of module is that of the positive buff. 4) positive does not stack. negative does. 5) the module decides the negative. the ammo the positive effect. 6) heating the module has an effect. Optional: apply effect to all ships on grid. not only the fleet. ( ==> picking the right module and debuffing the enemy appropriately should be viable gameplay as well) ==> the "commander" has to think of WHEN to boost because boosting all the time is not an option
you are currently not changing the exitement of this fleetrole, just a nerf. please consider my suggestions!
nope.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Kameiran Order Local Is Primary
601
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:30:44 -
[14] - Quote
Just put links on-grid and get rid of the need to assign boosters and call it good. I have to agree. All this buff timer/range/skill rework stuff is just silliness imo.
Daemun of Khanid
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